{"id":3754,"date":"2018-02-27T13:35:30","date_gmt":"2018-02-27T13:35:30","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.uwb.edu\/?p=3754"},"modified":"2023-06-08T21:39:17","modified_gmt":"2023-06-08T21:39:17","slug":"the-trace-remains-alumni-in-conversation","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.uwb.edu\/ias\/news\/2018\/02\/27\/the-trace-remains-alumni-in-conversation","title":{"rendered":"After the MFA: 足彩app哪个是正规的 Trace Remains – Alumni in Conversation"},"content":{"rendered":"\n
\"the<\/figure>\n\n\n\n

\n\tBy Andrew Carson (\u201916)<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tI recently had the opportunity to meet up over lunch with Lynarra Featherly and Sarah Baker, fellow alumni of the University of Washington Bothell MFA in Creative Writing & Poetics<\/a> program. What resulted was a ranging conversation during which we discussed our MFA experiences, our lives now, and a few pertinent asides.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tAndrew Carson: (to Lynarra) So, how did you pick the UW Bothell MFA program?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tLynarra Featherly: Talking over dinner with one of Evergreen\u2019s faculty who teaches poetry and poetics, Leonard Schwartz (who spoke at our MFA program\u2019s second Convergence), we had the kind of discussion where someone says, \u201cYou know, you should be doing X,\u201d and you\u2019re excited for someone to tell you what to do. Leonard knew about the UW Bothell MFA because he knows IAS faculty member Jeanne Heuving<\/a>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tTalking to Leonard\u2019s wife, Zhang Er, who teaches Chinese poetry at Evergreen, also helped me decide. I was trying to figure out if I could make myself write on my own, and wondering if I\u2019d be better off having a job I didn\u2019t care about, that didn\u2019t intrude into my life, so that I could try to start my own writing practice. She said there\u2019s ways of doing that work with Bothell\u2019s MFA program, and that with an MFA degree I would be able to teach.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tAs far as choosing Bothell\u2019s MFA program, I don\u2019t know that I would have chosen an MFA without poetics. I might have had a hard time, because my undergrad is in philosophy. My success as a teacher comes directly from a whole set of values, a pedagogical and ethical standpoint that Bothell reinforced.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tAbsent Bothell, I might have actually gotten into the standard workshopping mode if I hadn\u2019t been introduced to IAS faculty member Amaranth Borsuk<\/a>\u2019s workshop model. 足彩app哪个是正规的 preference of our taste is easily inflicted on others and then potentially more so on students. Right? \u201cDo this,\u201d \u201cmake that,\u201d \u201cwhat I read here is…,\u201d \u201cthis would be my suggestion.\u201d In the few quarters I\u2019ve been teaching, and Sarah probably feels the same way, I\u2019ve learned we have a lot of influence on our students, and we could demand that our students develop in ways that suit our poetic eye, our poetic ear. Amaranth\u2019s model is a way to get around that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\t***<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tWe take a break as our food arrives. As we start eating, we get to lighter talk about what we\u2019ve been up to since our MFAs finished. Lynarra\u2019s teaching at Evergreen, and Sarah\u2019s lecturing part time at UW-Bothell. I bring up that, beyond working as an editor, I\u2019ve been getting back into Dungeons and Dragons (D&D) with friends.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tSarah Baker: Yesterday I saw someone joke on twitter that they wanted to play D&D by themselves and be their own DM, and that that\u2019s what writing a novel is.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tLynarra: I don\u2019t know anything about Dungeons and Dragons. At all.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tSarah: Me neither!<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tLynarra: I\u2019m sure I would be interested. When I was 12 years old I couldn\u2019t pull myself away from pinball. I spent a lot of money in that way. I tried to move away from things that would captivate me in that kind of excessive way, so it\u2019s a kind of fear.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tA student from last quarter, a member of a tight workshopping group, was telling me that their group is still close even though they\u2019ve gone onto other programs, and that they play D&D together. Whatever they found out about each other there (in workshops) is also working in D&D.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\t足彩app哪个是正规的re is that fear of moving into a fantasy space that maintains itself\u2014that at some point you can\u2019t do the work of adulthood and follow the fantasy object. For me that world of play and fantasy comes back out more productively in creative writing, say. But the social aspect of something like D&D versus the way in which pinball works certainly is different.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tAndrew: At least here in Seattle there\u2019s a social aspect to pinball, I think. Places like Add-A-Ball in Fremont let you drink cheap beers and play pinball, or watch people play pinball.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tLynarra: 足彩app哪个是正规的re is a way in which even as children we watched each other play pinball. I haven\u2019t played pinball lately\u2026it was a thing for me as a 12-year old.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tSarah: It wasn\u2019t social at all for you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tLynarra: I was busy concentrating on the game.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\t***<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tAndrew: Do you think your undergrad in philosophy had something to do with a development of your ethics in teaching? Did that course of study seed any ideas?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tLynarra: Certainly as direction towards putting my undergrad in direct competition with what Evergreen hopes to do, and what I also hope to do with Evergreen, in combination with the Bothell program. That undergraduate study at St John\u2019s College was about a call to mastery: spend hours sweating away, and you might stand a chance of mastering the text. My senior paper was on Hegel\u2019s Phenomenology of Spirit, and I felt like I had failed; that I hadn\u2019t mastered that text.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tAndrew: I sense something of that struggle in your MFA thesis \u201c足彩app哪个是正规的 Feminology of Spirit,\u201d and in some of the remarks you wrote in the introduction. You wrote that you didn\u2019t want that to write in a mode of conquest or trying to beat the text, and instead to try to inhabit and just be with it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tLynarra: I think the mistake of my undergrad was partly mine, and partly the way St John\u2019s was set up. My spouse did well in that program. But she also wasn\u2019t the solitary thinking figure; she already knew what it was to ask people for help, that [studying] was a social endeavor and that you\u2019d study with other people. I was raised in Montana, in that \u201cup by your bootstraps,\u201d cowboy mentality, and laboring under a lot of weight in many directions: A whole constellation of potential difficulties there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tBut, my experience at St John\u2019s suggest some external pressure that we take on as our own and only recognize as an internal struggle. We conceive of ourselves primarily as knowers, right, and so that knowledge acquisition seems to go hand in hand. 足彩app哪个是正规的 way in which one thinks about, for example, D&D, or their ethical positioning to other people, is relational. 足彩app哪个是正规的 presupposition is super different, between how we are with other people, and how we interact with the text. You can experience many moments of enjoyment with the text of Kant, for example, where you can do the work of balancing that power, and take parts of the text away and say, \u201cyou\u2019re mine,\u201d and bring them somewhere else and converse with them, instead of having to carry all those tomes, literally and figuratively. Kant becomes very, very heavy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tI did find enjoyment at St John\u2019s, I just let it get the better of me. I spent a whole month of undergrad in my room just reading Hegel and taking notes and taking notes. And I certainly wasn\u2019t surprised when it became the central part of my master\u2019s thesis, that it would be the first big thing I wrote. Because that\u2019s that struggle for primacy I thought I\u2019d lost. That kind of \u201cwithness\u201d with the text was hard-learned.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tIt reminds of Jeanne Heuving\u2019s work, that libidinized field [poetics], and the pulling in of references, in the same way Sianne Ngai does, pulling in e.g. Melville here, Gertrude Stein there. Getting the discussants in the room and seeing what unfolds is lively, compared to sweating alone with the text.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\t***<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\t足彩app哪个是正规的 conversation had unfolded in a leisurely fashion, with digressions from all sides, eventually prompting a moment\u2019s reflection from Lynarra.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tLynarra: I don\u2019t know if you noticed but I can talk down a bunch of different avenues at the same time. I\u2019m not much of a linear thinker.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tAndrew: That seems like its own model of conversation. 足彩app哪个是正规的re\u2019s a Michel Foucault quote I\u2019m fascinated by, \u201cKnowledge isn\u2019t for knowing, it\u2019s for cutting,\u201d and it has made me a little averse to knowledge as we often frame it. Knowledge can be a mode in and of itself of projecting force, so I prefer a conversation that doesn\u2019t fixate on enforcing knowledge or making that the central concern. \u201cHow can I impose my will on somebody?\u201d That\u2019s a common way of using knowledge.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tLynarra: [That way of seeing knowledge is] a sort of horrifying specter to confront, when you realize you\u2019ve been set up in that way, to be enamored of someone else\u2019s abilities. Because when people that don\u2019t have the knowledge that you have, it seems like an idiocy, at its worst. For a long time in my life, when a teacher was critical of me for anything then they were incompetent.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tAndrew: Did you struggle with that in the MFA program?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tLynarra: I did. My last bout, before a critical revelation that comes at a price and out of age. I still thought it was my job to defend women, whether they said they needed it or not. One instructor said something critical to one of the other women in the cohort, and I never could resolve that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tAndrew: I had a similar experience turning in one of my first projects; the instructor was critical of it, and fair in doing so I think \u2013 in going back and reading my response to the critique, and looking at the project, I think I dropped the ball. At the time I was mad at the instructor, because I felt like they\u2019d found something objectionable and gotten stuck on it. I saw it as their failing. But it was also mine: I had a hard time hearing out criticisms and reflecting on my work. I found that conflict one of the more valuable experiences in the MFA in the end.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\t***<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tAndrew (to Lynarra): What did you learn that surprised you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tLynarra: 足彩app哪个是正规的 sort of absolute freedom from my own narrative upon meeting Amaranth. That\u2019s a moment that I still can\u2019t quite fully narrate without feeling emotional. Mining myself for resources, trying to master texts, trying to be the one who knew more than the next person so that I couldn\u2019t be dominated by other people . . . suddenly, those things released.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

What I\u2019d written prior to get into the program was short, hot, running too hot\u2014fiction barely disguising autobiographical material which very well could have been the kind of material many turned in. And then winter quarter came around and I started working with Amaranth and Sarah Dowling<\/a> and working with source texts, now I was being asked to play with language, versus mining myself for some sort of captivating story that would somehow seduce the reader in some ways, and overshare or tell all. It was a sort of uplift.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\t足彩app哪个是正规的 poetry [comprising my thesis], on its own, without constraint-based or conceptual work, already was a defamiliarization that made a good next step. Writing without source texts feels doable now, when maybe it wasn\u2019t at the time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tI think we [three] would all probably agree that part of the work of the MFA program is to create that relationship with your advisor where you see them as a little otherworldly. With Amaranth I was on very uneven ground. And every time I met her I was kind of nervous. I held her in a very different regard. I think Bothell does that very nicely during the thesis work, the pairing of students and faculty. I love that you can move around in genres and try on different figures of writing and see what it\u2019s like. Because what if I would have chosen a craft-based program? Nonfiction or historical fiction or speculative fiction or . . . I would have never known.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tAndrew: UW Bothell built a radical version of the MFA program, and it was a big part of why I applied. When I heard about this program, I was excited by what it seemed to offer. And I think it answered to that too. I took a course with Rebecca Brown<\/a> and four other students, a guided study through a broad range of texts including works we students selected, and to meet with an instructor to dig into those studies was great.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tSarah: And in her house too. Right?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tAndrew: Right. I still think fondly of her cat Ryder.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tSarah: Amaranth made us sous-vide salmon and a pea puree with edible flowers. It was amazing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tLynarra: We had almost an analyst-analysand relationship, where analysis was coming from Amaranth reading the poetry and the way she would comment, and as the one who \u201cknows.\u201d Amaranth\u2019s opinions about my work, whatever they were, never came across too directly, so I wasn\u2019t certain about her \u201ctrue\u201d feelings or opinions. And that\u2019s part of the work of the analyst: 足彩app哪个是正规的re\u2019s no sort of testing of that reality sphere, as far as I know.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tSarah: In one of the drafts of my thesis, I had color-coded some passages with the note: \u201cI\u2019m going to change this whole poem.\u201d She made a point to say that one of those was her favorite and I could have interpreted that as: well, if the worst one is the best, what does that mean for the other ones? Or, I could interpret it to mean my own criticism is overthought. Which is how I interpreted it. Because she had good things to say about other ones too, but I think she made a point to make it especially clear with that one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tLynarra: I\u2019ve made the joke before to other people that I would never know whether my instructors liked my work, and that\u2019s one of Amaranth\u2019s greatest strengths. When I look at the first drafts I see I was in some ways starting at square one. And I can see my beginning students go through the exact same thing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tSarah: Amaranth helped me articulate what I was trying to say with the poetry, which was always helpful too, to figure out, \u201cAh, that\u2019s right, that\u2019s what I want to push towards and then I can make this pattern more obvious and kind of push the reader there,\u201d and it worked well for me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tLynarra: Writing\u2019s not about a from-above talent, but it\u2019s something that one develops, right, over time, a sort of learning. I had a sort of poetic register in my head in those early drafts that I hear if I read very slowly and out loud to catch it. I think those possibilities were there. But had Amaranth not looked and noticed the things that were happening, I would\u2019ve stopped. 足彩app哪个是正规的 ego of mine would have been such that I would\u2019ve walked away.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tIt\u2019s also true that this thesis project is made of parts that I find poetically interesting, intellectually interesting. That first draft got shaped probably through at least 12 full rounds of edits. And the earlier drafts were thick, and could only appeal to me. It took a while to get that sort of level of generosity where it would also draw in the reader. To me doing that erasure work from the get-go already captured me. But that I would ever get out of my own sort of world of interests and engage the readers took some learning over time. So, bravo Bothell! Even if it never gets published, it\u2019s monumental.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\t***<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tAt the time, Sarah and Lynarra were both teaching courses, and they took a moment to discuss their recent experience.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tLynarra: Teaching is performative. It\u2019s not a guaranteed perfect set of methods at all, and sometimes you need to think, \u201cWhatever\u2019s up with today, I have to make it through.\u201d I inhabit a very different mental space while teaching, especially when it\u2019s lecture time and they\u2019re in a tiered lecture hall.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tLynarra: I get a lot of variety in responses from the ways different readers read the prompt or the texts. Sometimes the results aren\u2019t what I expected or intended. As I endeavor not to be clear about instructions about creative works, they\u2019re sometimes left bewildered.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tSo, I\u2019ll do this exercise in my office with students sometimes where I give them a piece of paper. I tell them to draw three squares one on top of the other, and guide them through it, and then tell them to put a circle inside, and then an X inside of that circle. 足彩app哪个是正规的n I tell them to imagine everyone in the class following those instructions for creative work, and the results coming out all the same. Because I want them to quiet down about clarity and get to work. Interpret the instructions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tSarah: One student mentioned she thought I was making the prompts less and less structured as we went through the course, and I said, \u201cThat\u2019s interesting, because I\u2019m not doing that, but hopefully that means you\u2019re challenging yourself more with each successive prompt.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\t***<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tLynarra: My final question is I think a continuing one for the program, and it\u2019s about the way in which we as alumni continue to try to cultivate the space where we get writing done. That the program itself can help us with that. What are you doing to continue in that imaginary space?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tAndrew: Creative work is motivated by life and experience, and a lot of what I learned in this MFA program is the boundaries of the life I\u2019ve lived, how far out my expectations and understandings go, where they end. I think both of you have touched on finding this tension between what you know and what\u2019s comfortable, and what\u2019s unpredictable or scary, what makes you nervous. Exploring those boundaries, emotional and intellectual, helped me want to do the work I find myself doing now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tI think ultimately, as a writer or poet or artist, you\u2019ll eventually make creative work\u2014even if it\u2019s like a firehose shot through a tiny nozzle you\u2019ll do it\u2014so I\u2019m making a life that has room for creative work, not taking on more work than I must while at the same time volunteering for things that fill me up and renew me.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tLynarra: Part of what I took away from the MFA is that the writing for me in some ways is kind of a calling card for friendship and good conversation, and my liveliest moments, my most interesting moments, and those moments of creating a life are usually in conversation. Teaching at its best has those same kinds of moments when you lose your sense of time and space. But producing and publication aren\u2019t big drivers of writing for me, at least compared to getting together with fellow writers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tAndrew: I think conversation is its own creative work, even if there\u2019s not a record.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tLynarra: I went through a whole period where I refused to write anything down. I felt like writing was still a way of mining myself for resources. So, I spent some time not writing anything down, whether walks or lectures or reading, to refuse to make that trace so I could just enjoy the moment. I love the idea that in most conversations there is no record; the trace remains in memory.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tSarah Baker is a writer, designer and editor living in Seattle. She is an editor at Letter [r] Press<\/a> and was a co-director of APRIL<\/a>, Seattle\u2019s annual festival of small and independent publishing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tAndrew Carson is a poet and editor. He\u2019s a lifelong resident of the Pacific Northwest and currently lives in Seattle with four roommates and two cats. His work appeared most recently as a selection for Push\/Pull\u2019s \u201cStanza\u201d exhibit, which showcased original art inspired by submitted poetry.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\tLynarra Featherly is an experimental poet with a poet\u2019s interest in critical theory. She received her BA from St. John\u2019s College in Santa Fe, NM where she studied philosophy and the liberal arts and her MFA from UW Bothell\u2019s MFA in Creative Writing and Poetics program. Her writing projects look to stitch together conceptual pieces from the tailings of German philosophy and Lacanian psychoanalysis\u2014thinking and writing in an energized and figured field of dispersed, multiple and moderated or diminished agency. She is a co-founder and co-editor of Letter [r] Press, which publishes the journal small po[r]tions, as well as ephemera and chapbooks. She has work published in Tupelo Quarterly and 足彩app哪个是正规的 Conversant. Lynarra teaches creative writing and literary theory at 足彩app哪个是正规的 Evergreen State College in Olympia, WA.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

\n\tBy Andrew Carson (’16)<\/em><\/p>\n

\n\tI recently had the opportunity to meet up over lunch with Lynarra Featherly and Sarah Baker, fellow alumni of the University of Washington Bothell MFA in Creative Writing & Poetics<\/a> program. What resulted was a ranging conversation during which we discussed our MFA experiences, our lives now, and a few pertinent asides.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":6,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_is_archived":false,"_archived_contact_email":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[12,3],"tags":[64],"school":[],"class_list":["post-3754","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-alumni","category-creative-writing-and-poetics","tag-afterthemfa"],"acf":{"related_links":{"toggle_visibility":false,"link_1":"","link_2":"","link_3":"","link_4":"","link_5":""},"highlight_box":{"toggle_visibility":false,"title":"","content":"","button":"","button_style":"angled-purple-button","button_screen_reader_text":""},"contact_type_1":{"toggle_visibility":true,"contact_title":"Contact Type","email":"sample@uwb.edu","phone":"(206) 999-9999","box":"Box 358500","address_line_1":"18115 Campus Way NE","address_line_2":"Bothell, WA 98011-8246","location":""},"contact_type_2":{"toggle_visibility":false,"contact_title":"","email":"","phone":"","box":"","address_line_1":"","address_line_2":"","location":""},"social_media":{"toggle_visibility":false,"facebook_url":"","instagram_url":"","linkedin_url":"","twitter_url":"","youtube_url":""},"blog_archive_sidebar_visibility":false},"yoast_head":"\nAfter the MFA: 足彩app哪个是正规的 Trace Remains - Alumni in Conversation - School of Interdisciplinary Arts & Sciences<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.uwb.edu\/ias\/news\/2018\/02\/27\/the-trace-remains-alumni-in-conversation\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"After the MFA: 足彩app哪个是正规的 Trace Remains - Alumni in Conversation - School of Interdisciplinary Arts & Sciences\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"By Andrew Carson (’16) I recently had the opportunity to meet up over lunch with Lynarra Featherly and Sarah Baker, fellow alumni of the University of Washington Bothell MFA in Creative Writing & Poetics program. 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